Getting a DAQ analog output to send out a constant sin wave?

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Getting a DAQ analog output to send out a constant sin wave?

Kwasi Kwakwa
Hi All,

I have inherited a TIRF microscope that uses a 2-axis Newport motorized
mirror mount to change the angle of the illumination laser. The mirror
is driven by 2 analog signals sent from a Data Translation DAQ and the
entire thing is controlled by a custom program written by my
predecessor. I would like to move the entire microscope over to
micro-manager, but I am also interested in using the mirror to spin the
laser beam around the outer edge of the back of the objective when doing
TIRF imaging. This means I need to be able to send a sine wave from each
analog output to the mirror controller at the same time I am acquiring
images with the camera.

I was wondering if there is a reasonably straightforward way to do this?
Seting a static value to each analog output seems fairly simple, but I'm
not sure how to proceed from there.

Best,
Kwasi A. Kwakwa
Research Associate
University College London/London Centre for Nanotechnology



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Re: Getting a DAQ analog output to send out a constant sin wave?

Jens
Hi Kwasi,

I have no solution either but would be very much interested in a solution, too!
Until now I have used Matlab to generate sine waves for that purpose.

Best,

Jens

> On 26. Jun 2017, at 12:44, Kwasi Kwakwa <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I have inherited a TIRF microscope that uses a 2-axis Newport motorized mirror mount to change the angle of the illumination laser. The mirror is driven by 2 analog signals sent from a Data Translation DAQ and the entire thing is controlled by a custom program written by my predecessor. I would like to move the entire microscope over to micro-manager, but I am also interested in using the mirror to spin the laser beam around the outer edge of the back of the objective when doing TIRF imaging. This means I need to be able to send a sine wave from each analog output to the mirror controller at the same time I am acquiring images with the camera.
>
> I was wondering if there is a reasonably straightforward way to do this? Seting a static value to each analog output seems fairly simple, but I'm not sure how to proceed from there.
>
> Best,
> Kwasi A. Kwakwa
> Research Associate
> University College London/London Centre for Nanotechnology
>
>
>
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Re: Getting a DAQ analog output to send out a constant sin wave?

Austin
Hi Kwasi,

I discussed adding this to my triggerscope - what is the frequency range you’d need the sine wave to run? Also, what is the voltage center and value range you’d need?
 - I’d assume the center voltage would need to be set per application (to center the circle on the objective back aperture) 
- and the voltage would need to be set so that the +/- would range at the right ring side depending on objective back aperture diameter. 

Austin Blanco
Advanced Research Consulting Corporation
e. [hidden email]
w. www.advancedresearch.co
c. 510.708.2995





On Jun 26, 2017, at 4:39 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

Hi Kwasi,

I have no solution either but would be very much interested in a solution, too!
Until now I have used Matlab to generate sine waves for that purpose.

Best,

Jens

On 26. Jun 2017, at 12:44, Kwasi Kwakwa <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi All,

I have inherited a TIRF microscope that uses a 2-axis Newport motorized mirror mount to change the angle of the illumination laser. The mirror is driven by 2 analog signals sent from a Data Translation DAQ and the entire thing is controlled by a custom program written by my predecessor. I would like to move the entire microscope over to micro-manager, but I am also interested in using the mirror to spin the laser beam around the outer edge of the back of the objective when doing TIRF imaging. This means I need to be able to send a sine wave from each analog output to the mirror controller at the same time I am acquiring images with the camera.

I was wondering if there is a reasonably straightforward way to do this? Seting a static value to each analog output seems fairly simple, but I'm not sure how to proceed from there.

Best,
Kwasi A. Kwakwa
Research Associate
University College London/London Centre for Nanotechnology



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Re: Getting a DAQ analog output to send out a constant sin wave?

Kwasi Kwakwa

Hi Austin,

The triggerscope seems like a very nice piece of kit.

I don't see myself driving the mirror faster that apout 20Hz. It can go a bit faster than that, but not massively so. Currently the mirror is aligned so 0V is always the centre voltage and the largest voltage range I will need is +/- 2.5V. That I would need to be able to adjust depending on the experiment.

Thanks,
Kwasi

On 26-Jun-17 4:44 PM, Austin wrote:
Hi Kwasi,

I discussed adding this to my triggerscope - what is the frequency range you’d need the sine wave to run? Also, what is the voltage center and value range you’d need?
 - I’d assume the center voltage would need to be set per application (to center the circle on the objective back aperture) 
- and the voltage would need to be set so that the +/- would range at the right ring side depending on objective back aperture diameter. 

Austin Blanco
Advanced Research Consulting Corporation
e. [hidden email]
w. www.advancedresearch.co
c. 510.708.2995





On Jun 26, 2017, at 4:39 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

Hi Kwasi,

I have no solution either but would be very much interested in a solution, too!
Until now I have used Matlab to generate sine waves for that purpose.

Best,

Jens

On 26. Jun 2017, at 12:44, Kwasi Kwakwa <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi All,

I have inherited a TIRF microscope that uses a 2-axis Newport motorized mirror mount to change the angle of the illumination laser. The mirror is driven by 2 analog signals sent from a Data Translation DAQ and the entire thing is controlled by a custom program written by my predecessor. I would like to move the entire microscope over to micro-manager, but I am also interested in using the mirror to spin the laser beam around the outer edge of the back of the objective when doing TIRF imaging. This means I need to be able to send a sine wave from each analog output to the mirror controller at the same time I am acquiring images with the camera.

I was wondering if there is a reasonably straightforward way to do this? Seting a static value to each analog output seems fairly simple, but I'm not sure how to proceed from there.

Best,
Kwasi A. Kwakwa
Research Associate
University College London/London Centre for Nanotechnology



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Re: Getting a DAQ analog output to send out a constant sin wave?

Austin
This is good to understand, so it seems like a spec of:

1Hz to ~1Mhz
-5V to +5V (16 bit range)

Would suffice?

Austin

On Jun 26, 2017, at 10:06 AM, Kwasi Kwakwa <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Austin,

The triggerscope seems like a very nice piece of kit.

I don't see myself driving the mirror faster that apout 20Hz. It can go a bit faster than that, but not massively so. Currently the mirror is aligned so 0V is always the centre voltage and the largest voltage range I will need is +/- 2.5V. That I would need to be able to adjust depending on the experiment.

Thanks,
Kwasi

On 26-Jun-17 4:44 PM, Austin wrote:
Hi Kwasi,

I discussed adding this to my triggerscope - what is the frequency range you’d need the sine wave to run? Also, what is the voltage center and value range you’d need?
 - I’d assume the center voltage would need to be set per application (to center the circle on the objective back aperture) 
- and the voltage would need to be set so that the +/- would range at the right ring side depending on objective back aperture diameter. 

Austin Blanco
Advanced Research Consulting Corporation
e. [hidden email]
w. www.advancedresearch.co
c. 510.708.2995





On Jun 26, 2017, at 4:39 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

Hi Kwasi,

I have no solution either but would be very much interested in a solution, too!
Until now I have used Matlab to generate sine waves for that purpose.

Best,

Jens

On 26. Jun 2017, at 12:44, Kwasi Kwakwa <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi All,

I have inherited a TIRF microscope that uses a 2-axis Newport motorized mirror mount to change the angle of the illumination laser. The mirror is driven by 2 analog signals sent from a Data Translation DAQ and the entire thing is controlled by a custom program written by my predecessor. I would like to move the entire microscope over to micro-manager, but I am also interested in using the mirror to spin the laser beam around the outer edge of the back of the objective when doing TIRF imaging. This means I need to be able to send a sine wave from each analog output to the mirror controller at the same time I am acquiring images with the camera.

I was wondering if there is a reasonably straightforward way to do this? Seting a static value to each analog output seems fairly simple, but I'm not sure how to proceed from there.

Best,
Kwasi A. Kwakwa
Research Associate
University College London/London Centre for Nanotechnology



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Re: Getting a DAQ analog output to send out a constant sin wave?

Kwasi Kwakwa

Yup, that would definitely do the job.

Kwasi


On 26-Jun-17 7:58 PM, Austin wrote:
This is good to understand, so it seems like a spec of:

1Hz to ~1Mhz
-5V to +5V (16 bit range)

Would suffice?

Austin

On Jun 26, 2017, at 10:06 AM, Kwasi Kwakwa <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Austin,

The triggerscope seems like a very nice piece of kit.

I don't see myself driving the mirror faster that apout 20Hz. It can go a bit faster than that, but not massively so. Currently the mirror is aligned so 0V is always the centre voltage and the largest voltage range I will need is +/- 2.5V. That I would need to be able to adjust depending on the experiment.

Thanks,
Kwasi

On 26-Jun-17 4:44 PM, Austin wrote:
Hi Kwasi,

I discussed adding this to my triggerscope - what is the frequency range you’d need the sine wave to run? Also, what is the voltage center and value range you’d need?
 - I’d assume the center voltage would need to be set per application (to center the circle on the objective back aperture) 
- and the voltage would need to be set so that the +/- would range at the right ring side depending on objective back aperture diameter. 

Austin Blanco
Advanced Research Consulting Corporation
e. [hidden email]
w. www.advancedresearch.co
c. 510.708.2995





On Jun 26, 2017, at 4:39 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

Hi Kwasi,

I have no solution either but would be very much interested in a solution, too!
Until now I have used Matlab to generate sine waves for that purpose.

Best,

Jens

On 26. Jun 2017, at 12:44, Kwasi Kwakwa <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi All,

I have inherited a TIRF microscope that uses a 2-axis Newport motorized mirror mount to change the angle of the illumination laser. The mirror is driven by 2 analog signals sent from a Data Translation DAQ and the entire thing is controlled by a custom program written by my predecessor. I would like to move the entire microscope over to micro-manager, but I am also interested in using the mirror to spin the laser beam around the outer edge of the back of the objective when doing TIRF imaging. This means I need to be able to send a sine wave from each analog output to the mirror controller at the same time I am acquiring images with the camera.

I was wondering if there is a reasonably straightforward way to do this? Seting a static value to each analog output seems fairly simple, but I'm not sure how to proceed from there.

Best,
Kwasi A. Kwakwa
Research Associate
University College London/London Centre for Nanotechnology



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Re: Getting a DAQ analog output to send out a constant sin wave?

Kyle Douglass
In reply to this post by Kwasi Kwakwa
Hi Kwasi,


On 06/26/2017 12:44 PM, Kwasi Kwakwa wrote:
> This means I need to be able to send a sine wave from each analog
> output to the mirror controller at the same time I am acquiring images
> with the camera.
>
> I was wondering if there is a reasonably straightforward way to do
> this? Seting a static value to each analog output seems fairly simple,
> but I'm not sure how to proceed from there.
>

This seems to me to be a recurring question concerning Micro-Manager and
NI-DAQ boards. Our lab had a similar use case recently and concluded
that the current device adapters do not expose the functionality from
the NIDAQmx API that is necessary to directly set sinusoidal output
signals. Initially we assumed that the device adapters exposed
everything within the API, but upon looking at the device adapters'
source code we realized that they are made to use only a subset of this
API, namely the parts that would make the boards perform as so-called
"sequenceable" objects. Sequenceable objects enable MM's automatic
hardware triggering.

Once we realized this, we reasoned that we had the following options:

1) Write a MM device-adapter that exposed the parts of the NIDAQmx API
that we needed to the user
2) Interface with the device through another software package, e.g.
MATLAB, like Jens mentioned
3) Explore other devices that would work better with MM, like Austin's
triggerscope

In the end we chose option 2 because it was the least work and we were
working on a prototype system, so we needed something working quickly.

I'm posting this so that others do not need to repeat this exercise. If
I am wrong about any of the conclusions that we made, then I would
gladly welcome feedback to this thread.

Cheers,
Kyle


--
Kyle M. Douglass, PhD
Post-doctoral researcher
The Laboratory of Experimental Biophysics
EPFL, Lausanne, Switzerland
http://kmdouglass.github.io
http://leb.epfl.ch


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Re: Getting a DAQ analog output to send out a constant sin wave?

Kwasi Kwakwa
Hi Kyle,

I had a sneaking suspicion that was the case, and I guess I was right. I
have an external control program that works for now, but I guess we will
have to decide whether or not it is worth extending the MM driver or
just sticking to what we have now.

Thanks,
Kwasi

On 28-Jun-17 8:27 AM, Kyle Douglass wrote:

> Hi Kwasi,
>
>
> On 06/26/2017 12:44 PM, Kwasi Kwakwa wrote:
>> This means I need to be able to send a sine wave from each analog
>> output to the mirror controller at the same time I am acquiring
>> images with the camera.
>>
>> I was wondering if there is a reasonably straightforward way to do
>> this? Seting a static value to each analog output seems fairly
>> simple, but I'm not sure how to proceed from there.
>>
>
> This seems to me to be a recurring question concerning Micro-Manager
> and NI-DAQ boards. Our lab had a similar use case recently and
> concluded that the current device adapters do not expose the
> functionality from the NIDAQmx API that is necessary to directly set
> sinusoidal output signals. Initially we assumed that the device
> adapters exposed everything within the API, but upon looking at the
> device adapters' source code we realized that they are made to use
> only a subset of this API, namely the parts that would make the boards
> perform as so-called "sequenceable" objects. Sequenceable objects
> enable MM's automatic hardware triggering.
>
> Once we realized this, we reasoned that we had the following options:
>
> 1) Write a MM device-adapter that exposed the parts of the NIDAQmx API
> that we needed to the user
> 2) Interface with the device through another software package, e.g.
> MATLAB, like Jens mentioned
> 3) Explore other devices that would work better with MM, like Austin's
> triggerscope
>
> In the end we chose option 2 because it was the least work and we were
> working on a prototype system, so we needed something working quickly.
>
> I'm posting this so that others do not need to repeat this exercise.
> If I am wrong about any of the conclusions that we made, then I would
> gladly welcome feedback to this thread.
>
> Cheers,
> Kyle
>
>


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