Interval of MDA Don't Function as Expectation

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H.F
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Interval of MDA Don't Function as Expectation

H.F
Dear list,

In order to get the time series of neural fluorescence, I'm using Micro-Manager 2.0.0-gammal1 (20190720) with Andor Zyla 4.2. In Multi-Dimensional Acquisition, total duration is much longer than expectation when only Time Points is checked and interval is larger than exposure. For example, after I set exposure(10ms), counte (6000), interval(20ms), it actually cost 312.7s.

The usage notes on micro-manager wiki has mentioned following,
Trigger mode is dynamically set by µManager when using Multi-Dimensional > Time points.
  • "exposure" < "interval" ignores the "interval" time and instead uses "frame rate" property from the "Device/Property Browser"
  • "exposure" > "interval" sets Software Triggers acquisition.

So, I wonder how can I trigger Andor camera in special interval correctly. There must be some wrong which I don't pay attention. ANY IDEA IS WELCOME! If you need more information, I will provide as much as I can. Thanks!

Best,
Yuejian Mo


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Re: Interval of MDA Don't Function as Expectation

Micro-Manager mailing list
I was also stuck exactly in the same situation. I was using a different camera Hamamatsu Flash4.0. The interval can not be controlled precisely. In the final, I used an Arduino Mega 2560 board to trigger camera and our LED light source to fulfil my requirements. uManager can not Internally control it as I want. I guess it is simply that our computer does not do real-time interval.

Best,
Dr. rer. nat. Qinghai Tian
Institut für Molekulare Zellbiologie
Medizinische Fakultät der Universität des Saarlandes
Gebäude 61, Homburg, 66421, Deutschland
Tel. 06841/1626107
Fax. 06841/1626104
        [hidden email]

On 02 Aug 2019, at 9:02 AM, Yuejian Mo <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear list,

In order to get the time series of neural fluorescence, I'm using Micro-Manager 2.0.0-gammal1 (20190720) with Andor Zyla 4.2. In Multi-Dimensional Acquisition, total duration is much longer than expectation when only Time Points is checked and interval is larger than exposure. For example, after I set exposure(10ms), counte (6000), interval(20ms), it actually cost 312.7s.

The usage notes on micro-manager wiki has mentioned following,
Trigger mode is dynamically set by µManager when using Multi-Dimensional > Time points.
  • "exposure" < "interval" ignores the "interval" time and instead uses "frame rate" property from the "Device/Property Browser"
  • "exposure" > "interval" sets Software Triggers acquisition.

So, I wonder how can I trigger Andor camera in special interval correctly. There must be some wrong which I don't pay attention. ANY IDEA IS WELCOME! If you need more information, I will provide as much as I can. Thanks!

Best,
Yuejian Mo
_______________________________________________
micro-manager-general mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/micro-manager-general



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Re: Interval of MDA Don't Function as Expectation

tron
I remember Nico saying that the camera takes some time preparing for,
when in single shot mode. This time is not accounted for in the exposure
nor in the delay, and thus it adds up when you compund many cycles.

There should be a way to trigger the cycle at schedule times, instead of
inserting delays in between them.

Qinghai Tian via micro-manager-general @ 02/08/2019 04:11 -0300 dixit:

> I was also stuck exactly in the same situation. I was using a different
> camera Hamamatsu Flash4.0. The interval can not be controlled precisely.
> In the final, I used an Arduino Mega 2560 board to trigger camera and
> our LED light source to fulfil my requirements. uManager can not
> Internally control it as I want. I guess it is simply that our computer
> does not do real-time interval.
>
> Best,
> Dr. rer. nat. Qinghai Tian
> Institut für Molekulare Zellbiologie
> Medizinische Fakultät der Universität des Saarlandes
> Gebäude 61, Homburg, 66421, Deutschland
> Tel. 06841/1626107
> Fax. 06841/1626104
> E-Mail: [hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>
>         [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
>> On 02 Aug 2019, at 9:02 AM, Yuejian Mo <[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear list,
>>
>> In order to get the time series of neural fluorescence, I'm using
>> Micro-Manager 2.0.0-gammal1 (20190720) with Andor Zyla 4.2. In
>> Multi-Dimensional Acquisition, total duration is much longer than
>> expectation when only Time Points is checked and interval is larger
>> than exposure. For example, after I set exposure(10ms), counte (6000),
>> interval(20ms), it actually cost 312.7s.
>>
>> The usage notes on micro-manager wiki
>> <https://micro-manager.org/wiki/AndorSDK3#Usage_notes> has mentioned
>> following,
>>
>>     Trigger mode is dynamically set by µManager when using
>>     Multi-Dimensional > Time points.
>>
>>       * "exposure" < "interval" ignores the "interval" time and
>>         instead uses "frame rate" property from the "Device/Property
>>         Browser"
>>       * "exposure" > "interval" sets Software Triggers acquisition.
>>
>>
>> So, I wonder how can I trigger Andor camera in special interval
>> correctly. There must be some wrong which I don't pay attention. ANY
>> IDEA IS WELCOME! If you need more information, I will provide as much
>> as I can. Thanks!
>>
>> Best,
>> Yuejian Mo
>> _______________________________________________
>> micro-manager-general mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/micro-manager-general
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> micro-manager-general mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/micro-manager-general
>

--
Carlos G Mendioroz  <[hidden email]>


_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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--
Carlos G Mendioroz
H.F
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Re: Interval of MDA Don't Function as Expectation

H.F
Thanks.
First, By inspired by Qinghai, I solve my question by using external trigger. It actual well as 20 ms/frame when 10 ms of exposure  and 20 ms of interval from external trigger.

More, I find something interesting by using signal generator and oscilloscope, which may consistency with what Carlos mentioned. 
Under interval trigger mode,
  • Interval < exposure, Micro-Manager access image from camera as fast as camera could be, ignore "interval time".
  • Interval > exposure, but just a little more, such just more 10 ms than exposure. Lager external delay  is created expected from preset interval. 
  • Interval > exposure, and much more, such more 100 ms than exposure. Interval work actually well. 
But, under external trigger mode, when interval larger than exposure, Andor work consistency with Andor's documents.

So, short delay inserting between frames may cause unexpected external delay. 

Best,
Yuejian Mo
 
 
 
------------------ Original ------------------
Date:  Fri, Aug 2, 2019 05:37 PM
To:  "Micro-Manager General"<[hidden email]>;
Subject:  Re: [micro-manager-general] Interval of MDA Don't Function as Expectation
 
I remember Nico saying that the camera takes some time preparing for,
when in single shot mode. This time is not accounted for in the exposure
nor in the delay, and thus it adds up when you compund many cycles.

There should be a way to trigger the cycle at schedule times, instead of
inserting delays in between them.

Qinghai Tian via micro-manager-general @ 02/08/2019 04:11 -0300 dixit:

> I was also stuck exactly in the same situation. I was using a different
> camera Hamamatsu Flash4.0. The interval can not be controlled precisely.
> In the final, I used an Arduino Mega 2560 board to trigger camera and
> our LED light source to fulfil my requirements. uManager can not
> Internally control it as I want. I guess it is simply that our computer
> does not do real-time interval.
>
> Best,
> Dr. rer. nat. Qinghai Tian
> Institut für Molekulare Zellbiologie
> Medizinische Fakultät der Universität des Saarlandes
> Gebäude 61, Homburg, 66421, Deutschland
> Tel. 06841/1626107
> Fax. 06841/1626104
> E-Mail: [hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>
>         [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
>> On 02 Aug 2019, at 9:02 AM, Yuejian Mo <[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear list,
>>
>> In order to get the time series of neural fluorescence, I'm using
>> Micro-Manager 2.0.0-gammal1 (20190720) with Andor Zyla 4.2. In
>> Multi-Dimensional Acquisition, total duration is much longer than
>> expectation when only Time Points is checked and interval is larger
>> than exposure. For example, after I set exposure(10ms), counte (6000),
>> interval(20ms), it actually cost 312.7s.
>>
>> The usage notes on micro-manager wiki
>> <https://micro-manager.org/wiki/AndorSDK3#Usage_notes> has mentioned
>> following,
>>
>>     Trigger mode is dynamically set by µManager when using
>>     Multi-Dimensional > Time points.
>>
>>       * "exposure" < "interval" ignores the "interval" time and
>>         instead uses "frame rate" property from the "Device/Property
>>         Browser"
>>       * "exposure" > "interval" sets Software Triggers acquisition.
>>
>>
>> So, I wonder how can I trigger Andor camera in special interval
>> correctly. There must be some wrong which I don't pay attention. ANY
>> IDEA IS WELCOME! If you need more information, I will provide as much
>> as I can. Thanks!
>>
>> Best,
>> Yuejian Mo
>> _______________________________________________
>> micro-manager-general mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/micro-manager-general
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> micro-manager-general mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/micro-manager-general
>

--
Carlos G Mendioroz  <[hidden email]>


_______________________________________________
micro-manager-general mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/micro-manager-general


_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/micro-manager-general