Multi-D Acq. External Trigger Issues

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Multi-D Acq. External Trigger Issues

Nikolas Vann
Hi,

I am currently trying to trigger a camera using a TTL pulse from an external source. I have the camera set for External Start and this works fine for both Snap and Live. The issue occurs  when using Multi-D it acts as just a normal external trigger not external start. Has anybody seen this before?

Thanks
        Nik
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Re: Multi-D Acq. External Trigger Issues

Mark Tsuchida-2
Hi Nik,

On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Nikolas Vann <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I am currently trying to trigger a camera using a TTL pulse from an external source. I have the camera set for External Start and this works fine for both Snap and Live. The issue occurs  when using Multi-D it acts as just a normal external trigger not external start. Has anybody seen this before?

Could you tell us the version of Micro-Manager and your OS, and the
camera you are using?

Also, you will need to enable Time Points and set the number of frames
and set the interval to zero.

Best,
Mark

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Re: Multi-D Acq. External Trigger Issues

Nikolas Vann
Hi Mark,

I am using 64-bit Micro-Manager 1.4.15 on Windows 7. The camera is an iXon3 860. I have enabled time points with 1500 frames with zero time interval with no luck. The initial trigger seems to work but only captures with a TTL.
 
Thanks,
Nik


On Oct 16, 2013, at 5:06 PM, Mark Tsuchida wrote:

> Hi Nik,
>
> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Nikolas Vann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I am currently trying to trigger a camera using a TTL pulse from an external source. I have the camera set for External Start and this works fine for both Snap and Live. The issue occurs  when using Multi-D it acts as just a normal external trigger not external start. Has anybody seen this before?
>
> Could you tell us the version of Micro-Manager and your OS, and the
> camera you are using?
>
> Also, you will need to enable Time Points and set the number of frames
> and set the interval to zero.
>
> Best,
> Mark
>
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Re: Multi-D Acq. External Trigger Issues

Mark Tsuchida-2
Hi Nik,

On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Nikolas Vann <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I am currently trying to trigger a camera using a TTL pulse from an external source. I have the camera set for External Start and this works fine for both Snap and Live. The issue occurs  when using Multi-D it acts as just a normal external trigger not external start.

On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Nikolas Vann <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I am using 64-bit Micro-Manager 1.4.15 on Windows 7. The camera is an iXon3 860. I have enabled time points with 1500 frames with zero time interval with no luck. The initial trigger seems to work but only captures with a TTL.

Thanks. Just to make sure I understand correctly, you are saying that
only a single frame is acquired (and the acquisition times out with no
further frames acquired) when starting such an acquisition with the
trigger mode set to "External Start", right?

Just to make sure it is not some other problem, could you also make
sure that an acquisition with the same number of frames (and otherwise
identical setup) works correctly if you have the trigger mode set to
"Internal" (if you have not done this already)?

Best,
Mark

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Re: Multi-D Acq. External Trigger Issues

Nikolas Vann
Dear Mark,

Thank you for the quick response. You are correct in your understanding that only the first frame is acquired and a time out occurs. The multi acquisition works with an "internal" and "software" trigger. Also when using snap and live the "external start" does work.

Thanks
Nik

> On Oct 16, 2013, at 9:17 PM, Mark Tsuchida <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Nik,
>
>> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Nikolas Vann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I am currently trying to trigger a camera using a TTL pulse from an external source. I have the camera set for External Start and this works fine for both Snap and Live. The issue occurs  when using Multi-D it acts as just a normal external trigger not external start.
>
>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Nikolas Vann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I am using 64-bit Micro-Manager 1.4.15 on Windows 7. The camera is an iXon3 860. I have enabled time points with 1500 frames with zero time interval with no luck. The initial trigger seems to work but only captures with a TTL.
>
> Thanks. Just to make sure I understand correctly, you are saying that
> only a single frame is acquired (and the acquisition times out with no
> further frames acquired) when starting such an acquisition with the
> trigger mode set to "External Start", right?
> Just to make sure it is not some other problem, could you also make
> sure that an acquisition with the same number of frames (and otherwise
> identical setup) works correctly if you have the trigger mode set to
> "Internal" (if you have not done this already)?
>
> Best,
> Mark
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register >
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/micro-manager-general

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Re: Multi-D Acq. External Trigger Issues

Mark Tsuchida-2
Hi Matthew,

On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Nikolas Vann <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I am currently trying to trigger a camera using a TTL pulse from an external
> source. I have the camera set for External Start and this works fine for both
> Snap and Live. The issue occurs  when using Multi-D it acts as just a normal
> external trigger not external start. Has anybody seen this before?

On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Nikolas Vann <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I am using 64-bit Micro-Manager 1.4.15 on Windows 7. The camera is an iXon3
> 860. I have enabled time points with 1500 frames with zero time interval with
> no luck. The initial trigger seems to work but only captures with a TTL.

On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 6:44 PM, Nikolas Vann <[hidden email]> wrote:
> You are correct in your understanding that only the first frame is acquired
> and a time out occurs. The multi acquisition works with an "internal" and
> "software" trigger. Also when using snap and live the "external start" does
> work.

Do you think this issue reported by Nik could be related to the
handling of trigger modes in the Andor adapter? I don't see any
obvious difference between Live mode and Multi-D, but I don't fully
understand the trigger setting logic in the adapter....

Best,
Mark

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Re: Multi-D Acq. External Trigger Issues

AndorThirdParty
Hi Mark,

I worked with Nik off the mailing list.  He reinstalled the all drivers and micro-manager and set up a new hardware configuration.  This fixed the issue with triggering.

The logic in the driver is roughly this, if available the camera uses software trigger by default.  In this mode a run til abort acquisition is started and the camera waits for a software trigger to be sent in SnapImage.  This provides the fastest response for single snaps.

If software trigger is not available internal trigger is used.  In SnapImage a call to StartAcquisition is made, this is not just as fast as sending a software trigger.

For live and multi-D acquisitions, when software trigger is selected, it is not used.  For these acquisitions the camera changes to internal trigger for maximum frame-rate.

All other (external) modes use the same mode for both snap-image and live/multi-D acquisitions.

Do you, or anyone else on the mailing list, have any comments or suggestions about this?

Regards,
Matthew


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Tsuchida [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: 22 October 2013 23:49
To: Micro-Manager General; 3rdpartysupport
Subject: Re: [micro-manager-general] Multi-D Acq. External Trigger Issues

Hi Matthew,

On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Nikolas Vann <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I am currently trying to trigger a camera using a TTL pulse from an
> external source. I have the camera set for External Start and this
> works fine for both Snap and Live. The issue occurs  when using
> Multi-D it acts as just a normal external trigger not external start. Has anybody seen this before?

On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Nikolas Vann <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I am using 64-bit Micro-Manager 1.4.15 on Windows 7. The camera is an
> iXon3 860. I have enabled time points with 1500 frames with zero time
> interval with no luck. The initial trigger seems to work but only captures with a TTL.

On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 6:44 PM, Nikolas Vann <[hidden email]> wrote:
> You are correct in your understanding that only the first frame is
> acquired and a time out occurs. The multi acquisition works with an
> "internal" and "software" trigger. Also when using snap and live the
> "external start" does work.

Do you think this issue reported by Nik could be related to the handling of trigger modes in the Andor adapter? I don't see any obvious difference between Live mode and Multi-D, but I don't fully understand the trigger setting logic in the adapter....

Best,
Mark

This message is intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is confidential and/or subject to copyright. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copying, or redistribution of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error please delete all copies immediately. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Andor Technology Plc Companies. Andor Technology Plc has taken reasonable precautions to ensure that no viruses are contained in this email, but does not accept any responsibility once this email has been transmitted. Andor Technology PLC is a registered company in Northern Ireland, registration number: NI022466. Registered Office: Andor Technology, 7 Millennium Way, Springvale Business Park, Belfast, BT12 7AL.
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Re: Multi-D Acq. External Trigger Issues

Nico Stuurman-2
Hi Matthew,

> The logic in the driver is roughly this, if available the camera uses software trigger by default.  In this mode a run til abort acquisition is started and the camera waits for a software trigger to be sent in SnapImage.  This provides the fastest response for single snaps.
>
> If software trigger is not available internal trigger is used.  In SnapImage a call to StartAcquisition is made, this is not just as fast as sending a software trigger.
>
> For live and multi-D acquisitions, when software trigger is selected, it is not used.  For these acquisitions the camera changes to internal trigger for maximum frame-rate.

The "multi-D" acquisitions must refer to multi-D acquisitions that use "Sequence" mode, i.e. take multiple images without time in between.  When taking images more slowly, the acquisition engine will call the SnapImage function.

> All other (external) modes use the same mode for both snap-image and live/multi-D acquisitions.
>
> Do you, or anyone else on the mailing list, have any comments or suggestions about this?

I can not think of a better approach!  


Best,

Nico





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Re: Multi-D Acq. External Trigger Issues

Mark Tsuchida-2
In reply to this post by AndorThirdParty
Hi Matthew,

On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 1:39 AM, 3rdpartysupport
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> I worked with Nik off the mailing list.  He reinstalled the all drivers and micro-manager and set up a new hardware configuration.  This fixed the issue with triggering.

Thanks!

> The logic in the driver is roughly this, if available the camera uses software trigger by default.  In this mode a run til abort acquisition is started and the camera waits for a software trigger to be sent in SnapImage.  This provides the fastest response for single snaps.
>
> If software trigger is not available internal trigger is used.  In SnapImage a call to StartAcquisition is made, this is not just as fast as sending a software trigger.
>
> For live and multi-D acquisitions, when software trigger is selected, it is not used.  For these acquisitions the camera changes to internal trigger for maximum frame-rate.
>
> All other (external) modes use the same mode for both snap-image and live/multi-D acquisitions.
>
> Do you, or anyone else on the mailing list, have any comments or suggestions about this?

Thank you for this nice description. I think the behavior makes sense.

I'm wondering if it might be useful to add a note about this on the
wiki page, or whether that would just be more confusing to users.
Maybe a comment in the source file would be better, though I'm not
sure where to put it.

Best,
Mark

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