What type of HDD to use

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What type of HDD to use

Jeff Spector
Greetings,
 We are in the process of upgrading several of our (~ 7 year old) microscope computers. When we originally bought them we had them all installed with 4 HDD in a Raid config. to get maximum writing speed. We will generally want to do ~ 50 frames/sec of a 1024x1024 field of view. My question is with the newer faster SSD hard drives available should we opt for the older conig and put 3 or 4 HDD in a raid, or can we get away with just using a SSD not in a raid config.  I've seen Hamamatsu recommendations for a PC but they don't mention what type of hard drive to use.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
 -Jeff



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Re: What type of HDD to use

Matthijs

Dear Jeff,

 

Just to share our experiences: for our acquisition computer with an Orca Flash 4, we started using two SSDs in RAID0, which sufficed for the maximum capture rate of 100FPS / 2048x2048px  resolution. This was several years ago, and a modern NVMe M.2 SSD should be more than fast enough to keep up with these acquisition rates by itself.

 

Yours,

 

                Matthijs

 

 

 

From: Jeff Spector [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: 06 December 2019 17:37
To: Micro-Manager General
Subject: [micro-manager-general] What type of HDD to use

 

Greetings,

 We are in the process of upgrading several of our (~ 7 year old) microscope computers. When we originally bought them we had them all installed with 4 HDD in a Raid config. to get maximum writing speed. We will generally want to do ~ 50 frames/sec of a 1024x1024 field of view. My question is with the newer faster SSD hard drives available should we opt for the older conig and put 3 or 4 HDD in a raid, or can we get away with just using a SSD not in a raid config.  I've seen Hamamatsu recommendations for a PC but they don't mention what type of hard drive to use.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

 -Jeff

 



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Re: What type of HDD to use

Damon Poburko
In reply to this post by Jeff Spector
Hi Jeff,

 For what it's worth, we have had good success using 2 SSD (now a little older) in RAID0. That said, NVMe drives can write the pants off just about any SSD. For example, the Samsung 970 EVO 1TB NVMe M.2 Internal SSD (MZ-V7E1T0BW)  is only $210 (CAD) on Amazon and has write speeds of 2500 MB/s!! We have some entry level NVMe drive in some analysis PCs, and they are outstanding. One caution is to go the biggest capacity that you can afford, as write speeds fall off notably as the drive fills up. If I were rebuilding a system, I would go with NVMes for fast acquisition.

Best,
Damon Poburko

 
On 12/6/2019 8:37 AM, Jeff Spector wrote:
Greetings,
 We are in the process of upgrading several of our (~ 7 year old) microscope computers. When we originally bought them we had them all installed with 4 HDD in a Raid config. to get maximum writing speed. We will generally want to do ~ 50 frames/sec of a 1024x1024 field of view. My question is with the newer faster SSD hard drives available should we opt for the older conig and put 3 or 4 HDD in a raid, or can we get away with just using a SSD not in a raid config.  I've seen Hamamatsu recommendations for a PC but they don't mention what type of hard drive to use.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
 -Jeff



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What type of HDD to use

tron
In reply to this post by Jeff Spector
Jeff,
hope you get many answers, but take into consideration that there are
lots of different SSDs (and HDDs), and some options.

A raid (I guess 1+0) not only gives you performance but also
availability (i.e. you will not loose data in the event of a disk crash)

Enterprise disks do fail less but tend to cost more. You have to weight
what would you be loosing if an event arises.

On the SDD side, availability is not the only concern, disk life also
is. SDDs have limitted life (write cycles) and some issues with rewrites
(like you have to erase a lot to write a block) so you'll better with a
recent OS (windows 10 ?) that knows about TRIM.

A pair (availability) of good SSDs might be a good choice.

HTH.

Jeff Spector @ 06/12/2019 13:37 -0600 dixit:

> Greetings,
>  We are in the process of upgrading several of our (~ 7 year old)
> microscope computers. When we originally bought them we had them all
> installed with 4 HDD in a Raid config. to get maximum writing speed. We
> will generally want to do ~ 50 frames/sec of a 1024x1024 field of view.
> My question is with the newer faster SSD hard drives available should we
> opt for the older conig and put 3 or 4 HDD in a raid, or can we get away
> with just using a SSD not in a raid config.  I've seen Hamamatsu
> recommendations for a PC but they don't mention what type of hard drive
> to use.
> Any suggestions?
> Thanks,
>  -Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> micro-manager-general mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/micro-manager-general
>

--
Carlos G Mendioroz  <[hidden email]>  LW7 EQI  Argentina

--
Carlos G Mendioroz  <[hidden email]>


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Re: What type of HDD to use

cherkas
In reply to this post by Damon Poburko
My general recommendation is to use single SSDs (not RAID) which can sustain high write speeds over big amount of data written: e.g. Samsung 970 PRO (not EVO). EVO is good at benchmarks, but when you need to write 50 GB of data, your write speed drops to ~300 MBps after few Gigabytes written. This means old Samsung 860 PRO SATA would perform better then new 970 EVO.
Going to enterprise-class SSDs may be a good choice as well, to increase endurance, but the price is higher. I would definitely avoid QLC models and some older TLC and look for MLC, or high-write-perfomance TLC.
Which type and model to use will differ depending on your maximum data write bandwidth and volume and on the PC configuration (to avoid incompatible configurations) and also regional pricing/availability.
Generally it is better to go with higher capacity SSDs, as higher capacity usually provides higher write-endurance and longer writes without write speed degradation.

Another issue is that if you have USB3 camera there is no real need for extreme write speeds, single USB3 usually does not exceed 350-380 MBytes/s, so high-performance SATA may be sufficient, or even TLC SSD that drops speed to 400-500 MBps after cache is full.
So it may be wise to use 2TB TLC (e.g. Crucial MX500 or P1) instead of 1TB Samsung PRO series.
If your write speeds exceed 500 MBytes/s you definitely need M.2 PRO-class SSD.

Best,
Volodymyr Cherkas


On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 7:54 PM Damon Poburko <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Jeff,

 For what it's worth, we have had good success using 2 SSD (now a little older) in RAID0. That said, NVMe drives can write the pants off just about any SSD. For example, the Samsung 970 EVO 1TB NVMe M.2 Internal SSD (MZ-V7E1T0BW)  is only $210 (CAD) on Amazon and has write speeds of 2500 MB/s!! We have some entry level NVMe drive in some analysis PCs, and they are outstanding. One caution is to go the biggest capacity that you can afford, as write speeds fall off notably as the drive fills up. If I were rebuilding a system, I would go with NVMes for fast acquisition.

Best,
Damon Poburko

 
On 12/6/2019 8:37 AM, Jeff Spector wrote:
Greetings,
 We are in the process of upgrading several of our (~ 7 year old) microscope computers. When we originally bought them we had them all installed with 4 HDD in a Raid config. to get maximum writing speed. We will generally want to do ~ 50 frames/sec of a 1024x1024 field of view. My question is with the newer faster SSD hard drives available should we opt for the older conig and put 3 or 4 HDD in a raid, or can we get away with just using a SSD not in a raid config.  I've seen Hamamatsu recommendations for a PC but they don't mention what type of hard drive to use.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
 -Jeff



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