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µmanager with point grey camera

Laura Pereira
Hello,

I've downloaded your program because I'm starting some microscope research and I need a software that will work with Point Grey Research Cameras and a Prior Stage. I see on your website that both of this devices are compatible with µmanager but I'm having some difficulties.

I use Windows 7-64bit and the 2.10.3.169 version of the FlyCapture software as you suggest on your website https://micro-manager.org/wiki/Point_Grey_Research and have already copied libiomp5md.dll and FlyCapture2_v100.dll to the µmanager directory.

When I try to configure the device however, "Tools" > "Hardware Configuration Wizard..." to add the camera, Point Grey is not available. I tried this with a few versions of the µmanager and always have the same problem.

I have used the 1.4.22 version, the 1.4.19 version and the 2.0 version. I have seen that the Point Grey adapter has not yet been included in Micro-manager 2.0. However, a binary for Windows 64 bit is available (mmgr_dal_PointGrey.dll). And I have downloaded this binary and copied it to the µmanager directory (with all three versions of the program).

I always get the same result; before downloading and copying the mmgr_dal_PointGrey.dll there's not Point Grey camera at all, and when I add it a Point Grey camera appears but it is unavailable and I can not add it.

I am using the Blackfly BFLY-U3-23S6C camera with Firmware 1.8.3.0, this is not one of the camera's listed as tested in your website but on your website says that this adapter supports the use of multiple Point Grey cameras so I hope to connect this one.

Could you please give me some advice about how could I maybe fix the problem and connect the my camera with µmanager?

Best regards,

Laura Pereira
Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München
Am Coulombwall 1
85748 Garching


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Re: [QUAR] µmanager with point grey camera

Nico Stuurman-2

Hi Laura

On 12/15/2016 3:36 AM, Laura Pereira wrote:
I've downloaded your program because I'm starting some microscope research and I need a software that will work with Point Grey Research Cameras and a Prior Stage. I see on your website that both of this devices are compatible with µmanager but I'm having some difficulties.

I use Windows 7-64bit and the 2.10.3.169 version of the FlyCapture software as you suggest on your website https://micro-manager.org/wiki/Point_Grey_Research and have already copied libiomp5md.dll and FlyCapture2_v100.dll to the µmanager directory.

When I try to configure the device however, "Tools" > "Hardware Configuration Wizard..." to add the camera, Point Grey is not available. I tried this with a few versions of the µmanager and always have the same problem.

I have used the 1.4.22 version, the 1.4.19 version and the 2.0 version.

You need to use a recent nightly build for either 1.4 or 2.0:
http://valelab4.ucsf.edu/~MM/nightlyBuilds/1.4/Windows/
https://valelab4.ucsf.edu/~MM/nightlyBuilds/2.0.0-beta/Windows/

Best,

Nico




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Re: µmanager with point grey camera

JonD
In reply to this post by Laura Pereira
Laura Pereira wrote
I have used the 1.4.22 version, the 1.4.19 version and the 2.0 version. I
have seen that the Point Grey adapter has not yet been included in Micro-
manager 2.0. However, a binary for Windows 64 bit is available
(mmgr_dal_PointGrey.dll). And I have downloaded this binary and copied it
to the µmanager directory (with all three versions of the program).
Try the latest nightly build of 1.4.  I think the addition of the device adapter for Point Grey was a relatively recent addition so it wouldn't be in the 1.4 releases, and maybe it isn't yet working in 2.0 for whatever reason.

Jon

-------------------------------------------
Jon Daniels
Applied Scientific Instrumentation
29391 West Enid Rd, Eugene, OR 97402
Phone: (541) 461-8181 x118
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Re: µmanager with point grey camera

Laura Pereira
Thank you both! It worked.


Laura

2016-12-15 17:37 GMT+01:00 JonD <[hidden email]>:
Laura Pereira wrote
> I have used the 1.4.22 version, the 1.4.19 version and the 2.0 version. I
> have seen that the Point Grey adapter has not yet been included in Micro-
> manager 2.0. However, a binary for Windows 64 bit is available
> (mmgr_dal_PointGrey.dll). And I have downloaded this binary and copied it
> to the µmanager directory (with all three versions of the program).

Try the latest nightly build of 1.4.  I think the addition of the device
adapter for Point Grey was a relatively recent addition so it wouldn't be in
the 1.4 releases, and maybe it isn't yet working in 2.0 for whatever reason.

Jon

-------------------------------------------
Jon Daniels
Applied Scientific Instrumentation
29391 West Enid Rd, Eugene, OR 97402
Phone: (541) 461-8181 x118
-------------------------------------------



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Re: µmanager with point grey camera

Peterbauer Thomas
In reply to this post by JonD


On 2016-12-15 17:37, JonD wrote
> Try the latest nightly build of 1.4.  I think the addition of the device
> adapter for Point Grey was a relatively recent addition so it wouldn't be in
> the 1.4 releases, and maybe it isn't yet working in 2.0 for whatever reason.
>

A more general note for those interested in using Point Grey cameras:
the current version of FlyCapture2 available at the PGR download site is
2.10.3.266, which does not work with the current MM device adapter (for  
2.10.3.169). However, we could successfully compile the MM1.4 souce code
against the current version and it does the job in MM2.0. Upon
initialization, it complains about some Trigger Mode settings, but then
runs smoothly, at least with our Chameleon3 USB3.0 camera.
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Re: µmanager with point grey camera

Laura Pereira
I am using the BLFY-U3-23S6C color camera from Point Grey, but my camera doesn't show any color when used with µmanager, I've tried changing the pixel type to RGB32 but when I do so the snap/live view window doesn't open. 

Does µmanager only work with non-color cameras? Or am I missing something? 

Thanks in advanced.


Laura Pereira
Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München
Am Coulombwall 1
85748 Garching

2016-12-16 14:45 GMT+01:00 Peterbauer Thomas <[hidden email]>:


On 2016-12-15 17:37, JonD wrote
> Try the latest nightly build of 1.4.  I think the addition of the device
> adapter for Point Grey was a relatively recent addition so it wouldn't be in
> the 1.4 releases, and maybe it isn't yet working in 2.0 for whatever reason.
>

A more general note for those interested in using Point Grey cameras:
the current version of FlyCapture2 available at the PGR download site is
2.10.3.266, which does not work with the current MM device adapter (for
2.10.3.169). However, we could successfully compile the MM1.4 souce code
against the current version and it does the job in MM2.0. Upon
initialization, it complains about some Trigger Mode settings, but then
runs smoothly, at least with our Chameleon3 USB3.0 camera.
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Re: µmanager with point grey camera

Nico Stuurman-2
In reply to this post by Peterbauer Thomas
On 12/16/2016 5:45 AM, Peterbauer Thomas wrote:
>
>> A more general note for those interested in using Point Grey cameras:
>> the current version of FlyCapture2 available at the PGR download site is
>> 2.10.3.266, which does not work with the current MM device adapter (for
>> 2.10.3.169). However, we could successfully compile the MM1.4 souce code
>> against the current version and it does the job in MM2.0. Upon
>> initialization, it complains about some Trigger Mode settings, but then
>> runs smoothly, at least with our Chameleon3 USB3.0 camera.

This is a very unfortunate outcome of Point Grey not giving us
permission to redistribute the FlyCapture dll.  Please do file a ticket
with Point Grey to ask them to give us permission to do so. I will do
the same here.  Until we are allowed to distribute that dll, the user
has to guarantee that the dll is the exact same version as the one used
to compile Micro-manager against, which is very unfortunate, especially
given the rate Point Grey changes their versions (and does not make
older version available).  One way around this would be to work against
their C interface, but I am not going to spend more time on this than I
already did.

Best,

Nico


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Re: µmanager with point grey camera

Nico Stuurman-2
In reply to this post by Laura Pereira
On 12/16/2016 6:05 AM, Laura Pereira wrote:
> I am using the BLFY-U3-23S6C color camera from Point Grey, but my
> camera doesn't show any color when used with µmanager, I've tried
> changing the pixel type to RGB32 but when I do so the snap/live view
> window doesn't open.
>
> Does µmanager only work with non-color cameras?

Quite likely given your experience.  I simply only had monochrome
cameras when I wrote the code.  If someone can lend me a color camera
for a while, I can see if I can make some time available to make that work.

Best,


Nico



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Re: µmanager with point grey camera

Laura Pereira
Thanks Nico!

Also, I simply asked Point Grey for the old software and they sent it to me without any problems.

Best,

Laura Pereira
Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München
Am Coulombwall 1
85748 Garching


2016-12-16 17:19 GMT+01:00 Nico Stuurman <[hidden email]>:
On 12/16/2016 6:05 AM, Laura Pereira wrote:
> I am using the BLFY-U3-23S6C color camera from Point Grey, but my
> camera doesn't show any color when used with µmanager, I've tried
> changing the pixel type to RGB32 but when I do so the snap/live view
> window doesn't open.
>
> Does µmanager only work with non-color cameras?

Quite likely given your experience.  I simply only had monochrome
cameras when I wrote the code.  If someone can lend me a color camera
for a while, I can see if I can make some time available to make that work.

Best,


Nico



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Re: µmanager with point grey camera

Vikram Kopuri
Hi All,

Just ran into the same issue. Like Laura suggested I put in a request with Point Grey support for an older version.

I came across this page on their website , https://www.ptgrey.com/KB/10119 . I might be misunderstanding it , it does seem like they are ok with including dll from their SDK.

- Vikram


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Re: µmanager with point grey camera

Nico Stuurman-2
Hi Vik,


> Just ran into the same issue. Like Laura suggested I put in a request with
> Point Grey support for an older version.
>
> I came across this page on their website , https://www.ptgrey.com/KB/10119 .
> I might be misunderstanding it , it does seem like they are ok with
> including dll from their SDK.

Not really, see their EULA: https://www.ptgrey.com/support/downloads/10419

I asked for an exception for Micro-Manager, but the Point Grey support
person (who, b.t.w. was extremely helpful) said that their lawyers do
not like such exceptions.  If everyone who uses a Point Grey camera with
Micro-Manager would file a support ticket asking for inclusion of the
FlyCapture2.dll in the Micro-Manager distribution, maybe this would
change...

For now, it is best to put the support request in.  It is way too much
work for us to keep up with the releases of SDK versions by Point Grey.  
On top of that, it will be highly annoying to have to download a new
version of the Point grey SDK more or less every time you upgrade
Micro-Manager.

Best,

Nico



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Re: µmanager with point grey camera

Vikram Kopuri
Nico Stuurman-2 wrote
I see. Point Greys people supplied me with 2.10.3.169. Now i'm able to connect to my Chameleon 3 CM3-U3-3154M-CS to micro manager. However it only works when I setup "Use Advanced Mode?" as No. When I set it as yes , Hardware config wizard freezes, and only way to exit is with task manager.  

This is what I see in the error logs.

2017-01-03T12:01:16.977048 tid984 [dbg,Core] Will load device Chameleon3 CM3-U3-31S4M_16401162 from PointGrey
2017-01-03T12:01:17.098054 tid984 [IFO,Core] Did load device Chameleon3 CM3-U3-31S4M_16401162 from PointGrey; label = Chameleon3 CM3-U3-31S4M_16401162
2017-01-03T12:01:21.554309 tid984 [dbg,Core:dev:Chameleon3 CM3-U3-31S4M_16401162] Will set property "Use Advanced Mode?" to "Yes"
2017-01-03T12:01:21.554309 tid984 [dbg,Core:dev:Chameleon3 CM3-U3-31S4M_16401162] Did set property "Use Advanced Mode?" to "Yes"
2017-01-03T12:01:21.555309 tid984 [IFO,Core] Will initialize device Chameleon3 CM3-U3-31S4M_16401162
2017-01-03T12:01:21.555309 tid984 [IFO,dev:Chameleon3 CM3-U3-31S4M_16401162] FlyCapture2_v100.dll version number is 2.10.3.169
2017-01-03T12:01:21.593312 tid984 [IFO,dev:Chameleon3 CM3-U3-31S4M_16401162] Format 7 mode 0 is available
2017-01-03T12:01:21.595312 tid984 [IFO,dev:Chameleon3 CM3-U3-31S4M_16401162] Format 7 mode 1 is available
2017-01-03T12:01:21.597312 tid984 [IFO,dev:Chameleon3 CM3-U3-31S4M_16401162] Format 7 mode 2 is available
2017-01-03T12:01:21.634314 tid984 [IFO,dev:Chameleon3 CM3-U3-31S4M_16401162] Device adapter requests invalid values ( 2844, 3) for property: Trigger Mode

Full logs is here https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4668926/micromanager_error_log_ptgrey.txt

- Vikram
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Re: µmanager with point grey camera

Nico Stuurman-2
Hi Vik,


On 1/3/2017 12:04 PM, Vikram Kopuri wrote:

> I see. Point Greys people supplied me with 2.10.3.169. Now i'm able to
> connect to my Chameleon 3 CM3-U3-3154M-CS to micro manager. However it
> only works when I setup "Use Advanced Mode?" as No. When I set it as
> yes , Hardware config wizard freezes, and only way to exit is with
> task manager.
> This is what I see in the error logs.
>
>
> 2017-01-03T12:01:21.634314 tid984 [IFO,dev:Chameleon3 CM3-U3-31S4M_16401162]
> Device adapter requests invalid values ( 2844, 3) for property: Trigger Mode

That is a bit sad, since this is the same model that I used on a couple
of computers...

However, the log line:

Device adapter requests invalid values ( 2844, 3) for property: Trigger Mode

surely suggests a problem.  The adapter code creates this property
(based on the camera reporting what properties it has) at lines 540-544
of the point grey adapter code.  The value 2844 is clearly wrong.  
However, this value comes directly from the Point Grey code (and I think
that the conversion from unsigned int to double is correct), so I am not
sure what causes it.  I could add checks and force this value to 0 or 1,
but that does not fix the underlying issue.

Can you run the camera in the FlyCapture software, and check what you
see there for trigger modes?

Also, this raises a sliver of doubt in my mind that your dll version is
the exact same I have.  Mine is 13,221,208 bytes in size..


Best,

Nico


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Re: µmanager with point grey camera

Vikram Kopuri
The Driver file they sent was FlyCapture_2.10.3.169_x64.exe and it was 367,431,680 bytes.

I did like you suggested , Look at the Trigger setting with FlyCapture software , and it looked ok. I've pasted a screen shot in the pdf below.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4668926/CM3%20MicroManager%20troubleshoot.pdf

I referred to their Register manual and found the address of Trigger Mode register as 830h , and used flycapture to query it. It returned Bit 0 as "1" and rest as "0" , which is normal.

Yes MicroManager gets Trigger mode as 2844.

One thing I forgot to mention was that after I Alt+Ctrl+Del MicroManager , the camera is left in a bad state. Its skipping frames, and the Pixel format is set as unknown. I usually have to restart the camera or goto Flycapture's Adv Camera Settings>Memory Channels>select channel as default and click restore , which sets all settings to factory defaults.

Another thing i noticed is , Flycapture allow me to put CM3 in Raw 16 and Mono16 pixel format. However these don't work and camera skips frames.

-Vikram
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Re: µmanager with point grey camera

Nico Stuurman-2
Hi Vik,


> The Driver file they sent was FlyCapture_2.10.3.169_x64.exe and it was
> 367,431,680 bytes.

Can you please check the version and byte size of FlyCapture2_v100.dll?

Slightly different versions will give strange behavior (which is
basically what you are experiencing).  Not likely this is the
explanation, but best to rule out the easy stuff first.

Best,

Nico



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Re: [QUAR] µmanager with point grey camera

Laura Pereira
In reply to this post by Nico Stuurman-2
Hi Nico,

This nightly build worked for my BFLY cameras but I also have a Blackfly S camera that's supported by the Spinnaker interface instead of the Flycapture2. I tried doing the same process as for the other camera copying certain parts of the program to µmanager but it doesn't work. I was wondering if maybe there's a nightly build that can work for this camera, in my case it is the BFS-US-32S4M.

Thanks in advanced!


Laura Pereira
Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München
Am Coulombwall 1
85748 Garching

2016-12-15 17:10 GMT+01:00 Nico Stuurman <[hidden email]>:

Hi Laura

On 12/15/2016 3:36 AM, Laura Pereira wrote:
I've downloaded your program because I'm starting some microscope research and I need a software that will work with Point Grey Research Cameras and a Prior Stage. I see on your website that both of this devices are compatible with µmanager but I'm having some difficulties.

I use Windows 7-64bit and the 2.10.3.169 version of the FlyCapture software as you suggest on your website https://micro-manager.org/wiki/Point_Grey_Research and have already copied libiomp5md.dll and FlyCapture2_v100.dll to the µmanager directory.

When I try to configure the device however, "Tools" > "Hardware Configuration Wizard..." to add the camera, Point Grey is not available. I tried this with a few versions of the µmanager and always have the same problem.

I have used the 1.4.22 version, the 1.4.19 version and the 2.0 version.

You need to use a recent nightly build for either 1.4 or 2.0:
http://valelab4.ucsf.edu/~MM/nightlyBuilds/1.4/Windows/
https://valelab4.ucsf.edu/~MM/nightlyBuilds/2.0.0-beta/Windows/

Best,

Nico




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Re: µmanager with point grey camera

Nico Stuurman-2

On 1/10/17 6:38 AM, Laura Pereira wrote:
> This nightly build worked for my BFLY cameras

Great!

> but I also have a Blackfly S camera that's supported by the Spinnaker
> interface instead of the Flycapture2.

This adapter will not work with the Spinnaker interface.  Another
adapter would need to be written to make that work.  Anyone can do so
and contribute the code to the Micro-Manager repository, but I certainly
have no plans to write that myself.


Best,

Nico




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