multi-camera adapter

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multi-camera adapter

Bryant
Hi Micromanager community

I'm writing to ask about anyone's experience with the multi-camera adapter:


In particular, we are interested in imaging from multiple cameras whose width, height and pixeltype can NOT be matched.  Is there any trick to enable matching (binning won't work for our case) or to create multiple independent logical cameras?

Our particular use case:
- multi camera with Andor Zyla (2k x 2k, 6.5 um pixel) with Andor Sona (2k x 2k, 11 um pixel)

Best

Bryant


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Re: multi-camera adapter

Stuurman, Nico
Hi Bryant,

>
> I'm writing to ask about anyone's experience with the multi-camera
> adapter:
>
> https://micro-manager.org/wiki/Utilities#Multi-Camera
>
> In particular, we are interested in imaging from multiple cameras
> whose width, height and pixeltype can NOT be matched.  Is there any
> trick to enable matching (binning won't work for our case) or to
> create multiple independent logical cameras?
>
> Our particular use case:
> - multi camera with Andor Zyla (2k x 2k, 6.5 um pixel) with Andor Sona
> (2k x 2k, 11 um pixel)

If the width, height and pixeltype can not be matched, then there is
quite a bit of low level work to be done to make things work. Images
from the two cameras stream into one and the same circular buffer, and
the width/height/bytesperpixel information is now stored for the whole
buffer, not per image inside the buffer (if I remember things correctly).

However, I am a bit confused about the issue with your specific
cameras.  They are both 2k x 2k (so, not an issue) and I assume that you
get 2 bytes per pixel for both (hardly encounter anything else these
days).  So, what is the problem exactly?  If you are worried about
overlaying the images after acquisition, then, that is a bit of another
problem (bit of a nuisance, but possible to do post acquisition, and it
would even be possible to do this on the fly with custom written code).

Best,

Nico




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Re: multi-camera adapter

Bryant
Hi Nico,

Actually, you have a very good point!  I had to confirm our plans again ...  It turns out we will not be using the Zyla.  The two cameras we'll use are actually:

Andor iXon Ultra (1024 x 1024, 13 um pixel) with Andor Sona (1400 x 1400, 11 um pixel)

-Bryant

On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 10:37 AM Stuurman, Nico <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Bryant,
>
> I'm writing to ask about anyone's experience with the multi-camera
> adapter:
>
> https://micro-manager.org/wiki/Utilities#Multi-Camera
>
> In particular, we are interested in imaging from multiple cameras
> whose width, height and pixeltype can NOT be matched.  Is there any
> trick to enable matching (binning won't work for our case) or to
> create multiple independent logical cameras?
>
> Our particular use case:
> - multi camera with Andor Zyla (2k x 2k, 6.5 um pixel) with Andor Sona
> (2k x 2k, 11 um pixel)

If the width, height and pixeltype can not be matched, then there is
quite a bit of low level work to be done to make things work. Images
from the two cameras stream into one and the same circular buffer, and
the width/height/bytesperpixel information is now stored for the whole
buffer, not per image inside the buffer (if I remember things correctly).

However, I am a bit confused about the issue with your specific
cameras.  They are both 2k x 2k (so, not an issue) and I assume that you
get 2 bytes per pixel for both (hardly encounter anything else these
days).  So, what is the problem exactly?  If you are worried about
overlaying the images after acquisition, then, that is a bit of another
problem (bit of a nuisance, but possible to do post acquisition, and it
would even be possible to do this on the fly with custom written code).

Best,

Nico




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Re: multi-camera adapter

Stuurman, Nico
Hi Bryant,

>
> Actually, you have a very good point!  I had to confirm our plans
> again ...  It turns out we will not be using the Zyla. The two cameras
> we'll use are actually:
>
> Andor iXon Ultra (1024 x 1024, 13 um pixel) with Andor Sona (1400 x
> 1400, 11 um pixel)

Probably not the answer you were hoping for, but currently you will need
to set an ROI of 1024x1024 on the Sona.

The only other hack I can think of would be to add code to the Andor
iXon device adapter to pad the images.  That would be rather ugly, but
likely the quickest way if you really need all those pixels.


Best,

Nico




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Re: multi-camera adapter

ALON OYLER YANIV
In reply to this post by Bryant
Hi Bryant,

Do the images have to be synchronous? or can you afford a small delay?

Best,
-Alon

On 28 Feb 2019, at 10:14, Bryant Chhun <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Micromanager community

I'm writing to ask about anyone's experience with the multi-camera adapter:


In particular, we are interested in imaging from multiple cameras whose width, height and pixeltype can NOT be matched.  Is there any trick to enable matching (binning won't work for our case) or to create multiple independent logical cameras?

Our particular use case:
- multi camera with Andor Zyla (2k x 2k, 6.5 um pixel) with Andor Sona (2k x 2k, 11 um pixel)

Best

Bryant
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Re: multi-camera adapter

JonD
Administrator
In reply to this post by Stuurman, Nico
Hi Nico and Bryant,


Stuurman, Nico wrote

>> In particular, we are interested in imaging from multiple cameras
>> whose width, height and pixeltype can NOT be matched.  Is there any
>> trick to enable matching (binning won't work for our case) or to
>> create multiple independent logical cameras?
>>
>
> If the width, height and pixeltype can not be matched, then there is
> quite a bit of low level work to be done to make things work. Images
> from the two cameras stream into one and the same circular buffer, and
> the width/height/bytesperpixel information is now stored for the whole
> buffer, not per image inside the buffer (if I remember things correctly).

Over a year ago I brainstormed with Mark Tsuchida about how to implement
this if needed.  As I recall what we (mostly Mark) came up with is the
solution of adding some API methods to MMCore to allow a script/plugin
create a separate circular buffer that would be managed by the script/plugin
instead of by the core.  There would need to be a way of attaching a camera
to this circular buffer.  And there would be a way to retrieve images from
this buffer instead of the main one and deal with them as needed.  None of
these methods have ever been added, but that gives an idea of what might be
required if you are really intent on this.

Besides the hacks Nico suggested, also think about if it's possible to run 2
separate instances of Micro-Manager, one for each camera.

Jon

-------------------------------------------
Jon Daniels
Applied Scientific Instrumentation
29391 West Enid Rd, Eugene, OR 97402
Phone: (541) 461-8181 x118
-------------------------------------------




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Re: multi-camera adapter

Bryant
Alon - At the moment we don't have an urgent use case for simultaneous two camera imaging ... Just that we have two cameras, and once or twice in the past, a collaborator used the multi cam adapter.  I think we could afford a small delay in most cases.

Nico, Jon - Thanks for the ideas!  I'll definitely keep it in mind in the future as we develop.  For now I think we'll shelve the idea.

-Bryant

On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 4:39 PM JonD <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Nico and Bryant,


Stuurman, Nico wrote
>> In particular, we are interested in imaging from multiple cameras
>> whose width, height and pixeltype can NOT be matched.  Is there any
>> trick to enable matching (binning won't work for our case) or to
>> create multiple independent logical cameras?
>>
>
> If the width, height and pixeltype can not be matched, then there is
> quite a bit of low level work to be done to make things work. Images
> from the two cameras stream into one and the same circular buffer, and
> the width/height/bytesperpixel information is now stored for the whole
> buffer, not per image inside the buffer (if I remember things correctly).

Over a year ago I brainstormed with Mark Tsuchida about how to implement
this if needed.  As I recall what we (mostly Mark) came up with is the
solution of adding some API methods to MMCore to allow a script/plugin
create a separate circular buffer that would be managed by the script/plugin
instead of by the core.  There would need to be a way of attaching a camera
to this circular buffer.  And there would be a way to retrieve images from
this buffer instead of the main one and deal with them as needed.  None of
these methods have ever been added, but that gives an idea of what might be
required if you are really intent on this.

Besides the hacks Nico suggested, also think about if it's possible to run 2
separate instances of Micro-Manager, one for each camera.

Jon

-------------------------------------------
Jon Daniels
Applied Scientific Instrumentation
29391 West Enid Rd, Eugene, OR 97402
Phone: (541) 461-8181 x118
-------------------------------------------




--
Sent from: http://micro-manager.3463995.n2.nabble.com/


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